tv On the Record With Greta Van Susteren FOX News June 27, 2014 4:00pm-5:01pm PDT
director michael hayden. that's this "fox news sunday." "on the record" with greta van susteren is next. phoney, is that what you think. that's what president obama called it. tonight a special one hour investigation into the irs scandal. >> scandal at the irs. >> are you or are you not committee all of lois lerner's emails? >> yes we will do that. >> not true. they say lois lerner's hard drive crashed. when did he know? when did he tell congress it happened. lead investigator going "on the record." and he just did it again. >> phony scandals. >> phony scandal? really? congresswoman michele bachmann is outraged and ready to respond. plus, they are the ones who were targeted and they are
ready to fire back. three tea party leaders standing by for one hour investigation into the irs scandal. next week the house ways and means investigation. good evening, sir. >> good evening, greta. thanks for having me on. >> and tonight, we have a letter that has just gone out to the chairman of the ways and means from the commissioner of the internal revenue service. it says they are going to get you emails by the end of next week. >> well, great, we heard that last month in may commissioner koskinen told the ways and means committee we would have all the emails from lois lerner without any hesitation, without any delay. and then we found out earlier this month that, in fact, two years worth of emails that we were requesting were, in fact, lost i'm not sure when to believe or which letters takes seriously.
>> oldest trick in the book. first this letter went to ways and means on friday afternoon. had which is what they always do bury it so the media can't do much with it. the second thing that i find most stunning about it says the end of next week. next week with the fourth of july when many people in the media are gone. going document dump supposedly then. this is the oldest trick in the book. frankly, i become more suspicious by conduct than by i content uher rightner the crime but the coverup. i don't know what all lois lerner did but on day one which she chose to plead the fifth and chose to not to cooperate and testify. that immediately raised my ears and eyebrows wait a minute there is maybe more to this story. every week this goes on we uncover more and more information. and nobody believes the latest revelation on these lost emails. nobody believes that chairman dave camp in june
of 2011 sent a letter to the irs asking them to investigate the targeting of these conservative groups and 10 days later by happen chance lois lerner's hard drive crashes and they discover all the emails are lost for two years and completely unrecoverable. then it happens during that same period of time, same two year window that six of the 80 people we are investigating, their hard drives too crashed. and just like lois lerners their hard drives too were unrecoverable. look, there is not a computer at fox news. there is not a computer on capitol hill where we work whose hard drive crashes whose all of their emails are completely unrecoverable and certainly statistically did not happen to six of the people in question all in a same period of time. all on separate computers. it's unbelievable. and we need to get to the bottom of it which is why the department of justice needs-to-a point a special
prosecutor. they need to get the fbi forensics it specialist involved in this and get to the bottom of it. >> all right. well, 76% of people surveyed by fox news think that there is something funny about the emails, too, that they were deliberately destroyed. i'm not -- that dave camp letter that you spoke to, i read it a little differently than everybody else. everybody sells suspicious and catalyst for destruction of emails. i think, you know, there is a lot of funny biz going on here. i have a little bit -- i'm not convinced yet that was a catalyst. aside from that, what's your impression of commissioner koskinen? what do you of him? >> i think he had a little too much uberous and a little too much and cockiness at our hearing. the fact that he sat with a smirk and refused to apologize. nobody did anything wrong. he was a turn around specialist. that anybody who questions his commitment is out of line. here are the facts. he may be a turn around
specialist. he may think that he is there to make sure that emails never get lost again. is he focused on putting in new procedures and practices. what he is not doing is investigating what happened. he is less interested in what happened. is he all about, you know, hey, let's' make sure the organization doesn't do this again. that's fine. but for the rule of law, for the accountability within the irs. for the sake of taxpayers whose rights were violated. we need to get to the bottom of why this targeting was going on and specifically now why all these emails were lost and who made the play call to destroy all this federal property and send hard drives to recycler. >> i have to look at this turn around expert stuff. i like to see how successful. >> this is what he claimed. >> what? >> this is what he claimed. >> no, no. i understand that he claims it the second thing is, and i know you are busy, but too bad you can't stick around for my off-the-record tonight. because i think you would
find it very interesting what i have to say about the commissioner. but, anyway. i will show it to you next time we see each other. thank you for joining us. >> i have a sneaking position we might agree. >> i have a sneak suspicion as well. anyway, thank you, sir. >> good to be with you, greta. >> it's not just the house ways and means committee. other congressional are demanding answers. mike is here to break it down for us. >> there are investigations going on on capitol hill and throughout the federal government looking into the irs scandal. one is in the house ways and means committee which writes tax laws and today asked the white house and treasury how they learned of lois lerner's hard drive crash to told them and more. held a meeting john koskinen. then there is darrell issa who held a bruising hearing on monday night of this week. oversight committee that sent koskinen a letter last saturday asking 15 detailed questions about the missing
irs emails. in the senate the investigation is being handled in a bipartisan way by the finance committee. democrat chairman ron widen and top republican orrin hatch have been working very closely and in a low key fashion trying to get to the bottom of the irs targeting of conservative groups. this week hatch sent widen a letter saying he wants to have a hearing on the missing emails. widen and many other democrats saying they should allow the treasury inspector general to conduct independent review to get the hard facts. the inspector general is doing expected report on the missing emails at the irs and we're told he is hoping to issue that in the coming weeks. there is also technically an open investigation that the justice department as well although many are skeptical results president obama phony scandal and told bill o'reilly there isn't a smidgen of corruption irs, greta? >> thank you. ever since may 10th, 2013. the irs targeting just
broke. the scandal has exploded. now, let's take a look how it all started and where the investigation has led. >> this is a fox news alert. president obama now admitting the irs targeted conservative groups. a scandal shocking americans from coast to coast. were you targeted? >> absolutely we were targeted. it feels kind of creepy to be on somebody's enemy list. >> tea party conservative groups, even a u.s. senator targeted by their own government. >> i am angry about>> in july 2s determinations unit charged with giving tax exempt status to organizations took action telling workers to scrutinize all groups if they have political sounding names like we the people then fast forward one year. is the irs targeting the tea party? >> absolutely no targeting. back and forth what happens when people apply for 501 c 4 status. >> the back and forth
continues. congressional republicans demanding answers. administration officials denying targeting. then, on may 10th, 2013, a bombshell. >> irs official lois lerner says in some 75 applications irs officials stepped over the line. >> an official says workers wrongly singled out organizations which used tea party or patriot in their filings. >> and on may 15th, 2013, the president goes public. >> i will not tolerate this kind of behavior in any agency but especially in the irs. >> congress now aware the targeting did occur called on lois lerner to testify. >> i have not done anything wrong on may 23rd, refuses call for resignation and placed on administrative leave. >> associated press reports the irs agent in the cincinnati office believed closely monitored by higher ups in washington. on june 19th, the department
of justice launches its own investigation assigning more than a dozen fbi agents to the case. putting barbara boxerman a financial backer to president obama in charge of the investigation. >> we want you to investigate the circumstances surrounding the selection of barbara boxerman to head this investigation. >> in january of 2014 a doj official leaking to the "wall street journal" even before the investigation ends that there will not be criminal charges. on june 24th, 2013, the irs announces some liberal groups were put on the be on the look out list. the inspector general saying there is no evidence the irs ever actually scrutinized those groups. on august 2nd, 2013. oversight committee chairman darrell issa subpoenas the treasury department and the irs for all communications sent or received by lois lerner. february 2014. the irs learns that many of lerner's emails are missing. lost, due to a computer hard drive crash but doesn't tell congress. in march 2014, lerner
returns to congress to testify, again, pleading the fifth throughout the hearing. >> i respectfully exercise my fifth amendment right and decline to answer that question. >> the next day, the irs promises it will release all of lerner's emails, even though they were aware of the hard drive crash months earlier. and then on june 13th, the irs finally informs the house of representatives that they have lost lois lerner's emails from january of 2009 to april of 2011 you can't keep six months worth of employee emails? >> one senate investigation, one justice department investigation, and four irs commissioners later, the search for answers continues. >> wow. so are americans buying the claim that crucial emails simply vanished? let's take a look at fox news poll this week. 76% of those surveyed believe the missing emails
were destroyed deliberately. 76%. joining us our political panel washington examiner susan ferrechio "the washington post" lowery and nina easton. 76%. that's not even close. >> of course they think they were destroyed 76%. when you look. >> deliberately. >> deliberately. when you look at kind of the surface facts. they don't even have to dive deep on this. have you lois lerner, the central figure. taking the fifth. is you have house committee chairman dave camp wrote a letter requesting more information from lois lerner, 10 days later those emails disappear. and we don't know where they are. we have the u.s. are a are archivists. private sector sarbanes oxley requires public companies to keep these kind
of emails for at least five years. these weren't remotely that old. >> i guess what you have to think that the government or people in the government are more competent. to believe that they deliberately destroyed it i guess i don't see the government ever working that efficiently or competently. >> of course i was actually surprised so many people believe they were deliberately destroyed. for me it's not a hard sale to believe maybe the government did actually destroy these crucial documents. very surprising that many people believe it was done deliberately. i do think it speaks to how this issue is beginning to resonate. i think when the irs scandal first broke, it was one of a number ever things kind of snow balling at the same time. i think right now as benghazi taken the backseat. other scandals have kind of moved off. this has become a real focus now in these last few months and will continue to be for the next few months. >> i think there is so much to be suspicious here. so much in terms of like whether it's the grassley -- we are going to it talk about that later. lois lerner went after
grassley. here, 76%, does that surprise you? if you look at the poll numbers. if you look at the breakdown democrats and republicans alike saying they don't believe the irs. it's not just a partisan issue here where we just have doubt in a democratic administration. and then you look at the number of people who are unsure. it's a very small number which again shows so many people are paying attention to this issue. so many people are following. this it's a great public interest. and despite what the administration is saying that this is just a scandal that's being dreamed up by washington i think the public wants to know what happened here. it's a big puzzle. look at all the pieces and all the hearings we have had and listen to the excuses put forward by the irs. a lot of it sounds so ludicrous, the excuses about a crashed hard drive 10 days after a request was made for information. when we know those emails went somewhere. why can't we get the emails
on the other end? everybody is asking those questions. >> i'm surprised the media isn't more interested. even that phony thing that lois lerner did at the very beginning when she planted that question aba sort of the beat the treasury ig report. i mean, that was so bizarre. that was so deliberate. but, yet, the media doesn't seem all whooped up about this. >> you can bet, greta, if this was a republican white house and targeting liberal groups this would be on the front page of every newspaper. this would be beating the drums. the effect of a lot of the media not taking this as seriously is it puts republicans in the position of questionnaires. it furthers the idea that it's a partisan issue as opposed to a real issue. >> excuse the "new york times" gave. interesting discussion about why they hadn't put this on the front page or given it more attention. and the argument the editors made was this is a big partisan issue. so we are treading carefully. >> well, what about the solid facts involving the issue? why aren't those making it to the front page?
sure, there is a lot of partisan back and forth here, that doesn't take away from the fact that the irs lost two years worth of emails and there is real evidence that they were targeting people politically incredible. >> wes, is the media going light on this? >> i think we will see a pick up of this over the next few weeks and months as well. in the defense of some of these organizations and some of these media companies, including my own. i think certainly we have covered a the love the irs scandal to make the blanket argument it's not being covered the specific argue. was made by the "new york times" why did they do the chris christie story or scott walker story got a lot of attention last week. >> which everybody hack backed down on. those are fair questions i'm always happy to kind of debate that and have our own feet held to the fire. like i said, i do think there has been coverage of this. and can only imagine it will continue as the irs continues to not answer the questions. >> and missing emails ramps it up. >> indeed, i think the grassley thing really ramps it up when you see her email. we will talk about that later. anyway, panel, thank you.
>> it's a question we know you are all asking. why can't the computer experts track down vanished emails. is there a way? go straight to the the experts for an answer next. the tea party, do they think the investigation has gotten anywhere in the last year you will hear from our panel of tea party leaders as a special edition of "on the record" continues. ing nexium 24. finally, the purple pill, the #1 prescribed acid blocking brand. comes without a prescription for frequent heartburn. get complete protection. nexium level protection.
thank ythank you for defendiyour sacrifice. and thank you for your bravery. thank you conel. thank you daddy. military families are uniquely thankful for many things, the legacy of usaa auto insurance can be one of them. if you're a current or former military member or their family, get an auto insurance quote and see why 92% of our members plan to stay for life.
could help your business didavoid hours of delaynd test caused by slow internet from the phone company? that's enough time to record a memo. idea for sales giveaway. return a call. sign a contract. pick a tie. take a break with mr. duck. practice up for the business trip. fly to florida. win an award. close a deal. hire an intern. and still have time to spare. check your speed.
see how fast your internet can be. switch now and add voice and tv for $34.90. comcast business. built for business. i did not say i provide you emails that disappeared if i had a magical wand. >> does it take magic or just good search and technical skills. stlnt is a way to use technology to track down emails. morgan wright joins us. >> hi, greta, nice to he so you again. >> do you buy it that those emails are gone. >> jimmie hoffa is gone not these emails. don't buy it. nothing ever dies in the digital world so it's out there somewhere. >> how would you find it? >> you know, the first thing i would do in fact, when you previously said if you were that would you do? take a stiff drink and start lining up investigators and technical resources. start putting no pun intended people on the record and getting testimony down.
assistants of the six people. every blackberry, every hard drive. credit card receipt. did they buy storage devices. credit audit and access logs. all of these systems have logs. what did they do when they were inside of these systems. start pulling them all together. if the hard drives are gone all you have left now is a paper trail. >> would you want their address book. >> everything. >> find out who they could possibly email? >> so the day after lois lerner's hard drive crashed can i tell you when they put a new one in there they pulled down to the exchange server was still in the deleted and sent. more importantly what they pulled down from her blackberry and from her outlook the exchange server what's her address book. every name of every person that she has probably emailed is in there. i would send out a lead on every one of those and say who has got this. what do you have and go back that range of years. >> you can do that today, even though they say they have destroyed the recycled the hard drive? you could do that today? >> the example would be. >> is that a yes? >> you could go back and do it. if i used my iphone and
used instagram to take a punch of pictures and potioned on the internet. the fact i lost my iphone doesn't mean my picture goes away. they are still thrsm the hardware is really irrelevant at this point. we would love to have it what's out there is the digital trail of every email address book. whatever else is out there we can find this stuff. >> are they lying that they can't find it it? >> it is the difference between can't they find it or won't they find it? they won't find it because it's not in their best interest right now. >> so you are incredibly suspicious of the irs, right? >> if one hard drive went missing that's a major coincidence. when six hard drives go missing that's a conspiracy. if your six witnesses on prosecution disappeared the night before the case was supposed to go to trial. nobody in their right mind would believe that's a coincidence. >> a the love viewers have written me about the blackberries that's different from laptop. >> address book it can sync with the exchange server. i want to know where is the blackberry? she had that up until the day she left. where is it? >> and so there are a lot of -- boy, that's stunning
what you tell me. absolutely stunning. sounds like they are crooked. sounds like they are lying. >> big mess because it's going to take a big effort to get through this big mess. >> it could be done it? >> can be done. it needs the will to do it. political will. >> the political will. morgan, thank you. >> you get, greta. this week all eyes were on the oversight committee hearings. chairman darrell issa leading the charge. >> i subpoenaed you here tonight because, frankly, i'm sick and tired of your game playing in response to congressional oversight. you testified under oath in march that you would produce all of lois lerner's emails subpoenaed by this committee. commissioner, at a minimum, did you not tell the whole truth that you knew on that day. we have a problem with you. and you have a problem with maintaining your credibility. >> and chairman darrell issa joins us. good evening, sir. >> good evening, greta. thank you for your coverage of the impossible story of how everything seems to get lost if it leads to the
truth did you hear morgan wright about access to these emails quite damning. >> you are exactly right there. is two sides to every email. many of lois lerner's emails went to multiple recipients. a great deal of it can still be found. the reality is what we learned in our last two hearings was that when they discovered they had lost this, the so-called crash drive they had at least six months of backups, the commissioner himself and the council said they didn't try to recover them from those backups. of the commissioner said it would have been expensive. you know, they would have you you believe that this was so important that they sent it to a criminal lab to try to recover it but then they weren't willing to simply run a backup tape. >> now, you have september a subpoena, i understand over to the fec because there is at least a report that lois lerner improperly shared information, confidential taxpayer information with the fec. first of all, did you subpoena a subpoena to the
fec and is that information that i just said about sharing confidential information is, that correct? >> they are both correct. we sent -- we asked for the correspondence and any records left back to 1986 when lois lerner became the head of the fec. greta, understands, we now have lois lerner as a criminal conspirator in this activity we don't know who all she conspired with ways and means have referred criminal charges. we of course have held her in contempt for improperly not telling us the truth after she said things like i didn't break any rules. i didn't break any laws. she broke rules, she broke laws, and it's very clear after the grassley revelation this is somebody who was trying to hurt people with her actions. she didn't always get away with it like when she sent 1.1 million records to the department of justice hoping to get prosecution against these 501 c 4s. it didn't always work but she sure tried. >> the president says it's a phony scandal. he said there is not a smidgen of corruption.
you have got a leak from juive the "wall street journal." no criminal charges to be brought. you say that lois lerner is at least involved in a criminal conspiracy. so, now what? where does that leave you? >> well, it leaves us at odds with a president who initially said this was awful. he was going to get to the bottom of it then turned it into yet another one of those it's not a scandal and it's just republicans. it's not just republicans. the reason 75%, three out of four americans are outraged and don't trust the irs is because they shouldn't trust the irs. the commissioner himself did not tell the whole truth in front of our committee when he knew there was a problem with these emails his agency leaked to the white house months before we ever got told. remember, greta, you would not know about the additional emails if we hadn't got -- subpoenaed and gotten documents from the department of justice and then asked them on monday
what about these documents and on friday they bury in a report trying to say oh, by the way, there are these lost two years of emails. >> one quick question. when is your next hearing and who are you going to call? >> well, we did not adjourn either of the two hearings we had. so we can recall either of those witnesses at any time. right now as your earlier interviews indicated. we are starting to go through depositions of professionals inside the system. if you look at the 61 questions we asked, in the interrogatory, we did so so we could figure out who it is we talked to to get to the truth on these. additionally, we have some more discovery speents that will go out to try to recover more of these emails that lois lerner and others did as they began their process of conspiring conservative groups because of what they believed. >> all right. just a real quick answer. commissioner koskinen was he honest with you? did he spin you or
uninformed? what's the word you use? >> he was disingenuous which is a nice term or in fact he didn't tell the whole truth which is what i said in front of the committee. i believe he is probably one step short or shy of perjury but he certainly way past meeting his obligation as officer of the court to tell the whole truth. >> chairman, thank you, sir. >> thank you, greta. >> and you have heard him say it, president obama calling all this just another phony scandal. and now you have to hear what the president said this time. you will and representative michele bachmann is here to talk about that. that's all next. and if i tap my geico app here i can pay my bill.
tap it here, digital insurance id card. and tap it here, boom, roadside assistance. on'tday ooklay, it's axwellmay. the igpay? otallytay. take an icturepay! onephay, onephay! really, pig latin? [ male announcer ] geico. anywhere, anytime. just an aptay away on the geico appay. [ male announcer ] geico. anywhere, anytime. when folks think about wthey think salmon and energy. but the energy bp produces up here creates something else as well: jobs all over america. engineering and innovation jobs. advanced safety systems & technology. shipping and manufacturing. across the united states, bp supports more than a quarter million jobs. when we set up operation in one part of the country, people in other parts go to work. that's not a coincidence. it's one more part of our commitment to america.
we work through the night to bake fresh bread from fresh dough in every bakery-cafe. because it tastes better that way. and it makes all of our sandwiches... soups... and everything else it touches taste better too. then, at the end of every day, we donate everything we have left to people in need. so we're out of bread. and we stay up all night... and do it all over again. panera bread. nobody ever stomped their foot and asked for less. because what we all really want... ...is more. there's a reason it's called an "all you can eat" buffet. and not a "have just a little buffet". that's the idea behind the more everything plan. it's more of everything you want. for less. plus, get the droid maxx by motorola for 0 down. get more with our best plans
corruption. that was president obama talking about the irs scandal back in february. and just yesterday, the president brushing aside the problems plaguing his administration, again. >> staples the news that's coming off is just -- these are just washington fights. they are fabricated issues. they are phony scandals that are generated. >> you heard the president phony scandals, fabricated fights. joining us representative and former irs lawyer michele bachmann. good evening, congresswoman. >> good evening, thanks for having me on this evening. >> well, the president said not a smidgen of corruption just a couple months ago and now he is saying, is he repeating again phony scandal and of course now we get the news about targeting congress or senator grassley. your response to the president? >> well, there is no question this is a scandal. it's a scandal of epic proportions. big enough it could bring down the presidency. the only thing that's phony are all of the denials coming out of the white house because we learned this week the irs admitted
that they themselves released private, confidential tax return information and, again, as a former tax official, if i would have done that as an employee of the irs, i would have been referred to the justice department, the criminal division, i would have not only lost my job, greta, i would have been subject to a felony of five years hard time. in a federal penitentiary. that's what we are talking about. that's how serious this is the. irs has broken laws and the american people need a redress of this grievance. >> tell me what would have happened. if you, if you were at the irs as a lawyer, more than once, multiple times, even frequently used, quote: inappropriate criteria to sort out different people who you did audits or held things up for, inappropriate criteria. is that a problem?
>> it's a major problem. the way that it works at the irs, everything is by the book. there is big manuals that everyone in the irs has to go by. you have to follow every jot and tibiddle of the manuals and supervisor checks the work. it's impossible to go up and down the food chain with problems going from supervisor to supervisor to supervisor. they get caught. here's the other thing, greta, when it comes to confidential tax information, as a federal tax lawyer, i couldn't even share a tax return with anyone in my office, any other lawyer. only people on the designated chain were allowed to have that information for obvious reasons because it's so highly confidential and this week the irs commit admitted that they violated, they betrayed that public trust. >> and the reason i use the word is inappropriate criteria because that, i
think, that is how the commissioner, the irs is describing it as though it's just inappropriate criteria that was being used. >> well, it's far beyond that greta. they have broken the law that is already established. which is no one can release confidential tax information. they not only did it one time with one return, we also know that over 1.1 million documents were wrongfully sent by lois lerner to the justice department, criminal division. the criminal division only looks at employee behavior. but, yet, lois lerner wanted the justice department to look at the behavior of the nonprofits themselves. 12,000 different nonprofits as a matter of fact. so this s nt a small problem. this epic proportion. it's only beginning. >> congresswoman, thank you. >> thank you, greta. >> and the irs targeting is all too real for our next panel of tea party leaders.
how do you feel about president obam the scandal? you will hear from them next. n get in your way? talk to your doctor about viagra. 20 million men already have. ask your doctor if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take viagra if you take nitrates for chest pain; it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. side effects include headache, flushing, upset stomach, and abnormal vision. to avoid long- term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours. stop taking viagra and call your doctor right away if you experience a sudden decrease or loss in vision or hearing. this is the age of taking action. viagra. talk to you doctor. start with the best writing experience.? make it incredibly thin. add an adjustable kickstand, a keyboard,
a usb port, and the freedom of touch. and, of course, make it run microsoft office, with the power and speed to do real work. introducing surface pro 3. the tablet that can replace your laptop. good and close. help keep teeth clean and breath fresh. with beneful healthy smile food and snacks. he'll love the crunch of the healthy smile kibbles. you'll love how they help clean. with soft meaty centers and teeth cleaning texture, healthy smile snacks help keep a shine on his smile. it's dental that tastes so good. beneful healthy smile food and snacks.
...they eat well to be well. okinawa life has... ...isoflavone, a key ingredient of... ...the okinawa diet. a secret of vitality from people... ...who really know how to live. okinawa life. get your $5 coupon at okinawalife.com yobut you may notds. know we're a family. 12 brands. more hotels than anyone else in the world. like days inn, where you can do everything under the sun. save up to 15 percent and earn bonus points when you book at wyndhamrewards.com
first the irs dismissing the irs scandal as phony scandal. lois lerner's emails poof. does the obama administration taking the investigation seriously at all. becky garretson, tea party patriots co-founder jenny beth and former tea party executive director larry. jenny beth first to you, the president says that this is phony. your response to him is, what? >> it's absolutely ridiculous. this is not a phony scandal. it is real. the irs employee manual even states in chapter 10, section 3, that the employees are supposed to print hard copies of the emails. so if the hard drive mysteriously crashed, there still should be hard copies of the emails. and they are not. >> larry, your thoughts about what the president is saying and were you ever -- i mean, did you feel scared
or intimidated by the irs? was it -- how did you feel when the irs was going after your tea party? >> well, hi, greta. you and i have done a session on the phony scandals before. and i encourage people to look that one up. we have new information since then. first of all, this is not a phony scandal. in the first place the president immediately came out last spring and said it was inappropriate conduct. he wanted a full investigation. they wanted corrective action. also, why did he fire acting commissioner miller if this was just some sort of trumped up scandal. also,. >> go ahead. >> i was going to say. >> i was going to go to becky. becky, what's it like to have the irs come breathing down your back? >> it's not good. i will tell you that. >> in terms of, what? i mean, how is it a problem for you? >> i think the intimidation factor is really a problem. when you have the irs writing you a letter telling
you that under penalty of perjury they will only look at your application if you turn over the names of your donors, the names of your volunteers, wanting to see copies of every speech ever given and the names of those speakers and the list goes on and on. that is a big intimidation factor. >> jenny beth, are you -- do you expect democrats to be interested in this or be pursuing this or not? >> i expect democrats to do that because it's the right thing to do. they should be just as appalled as republicans and conservatives are. they are not doing. this the senate becoming de facto accomplices because they are not taking this seriously and not doing any investigation. there is no congressional oversight on the senate side at all. >> i'm going to take the last word on this. i think the president sort of boxed him in because of calling it a phony scandal. investigate so heandal go has a giant i told you so at the end.
go ahead and investigate because i told you so if it indeed were a phony scandal. anyway. thank you all for joining us. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> this week we found out it's not just the tea party, lois lerner sitting a sitting republican senator. why senator chuck grassley. we will investigate the real story behind that next. sweets become salaries. an oven heats up a community la cocina, a small kitchen that kick-starts the careers of 41 entrepreneurs. they bring the talent. we help fund the tools. it's a small way we help that's been huge for the community. little by little we can do a lot. because... small is huge. visit www.wellsfargo.com to see how big small can be.
it can help your business save money. false. the truth is when you compare our fastest internet to the fastest dsl from the phone company, comcast business gives you more for your money. why pay more for less? call today for a low price on speeds up to 150mbps. and find out more about our two-year price guarantee. comcast business. built for business. lois lerner washington investigating that story. she joins us once again. susan, do these two know each other, senator grassley and lois lerner? oh, yes. of all the senators and house members, chuck grassley more than anyone else scrutinized tax exempt groups. and within our country like
hospitals, charities, he wanted greater oversight. he wanted more accountability. he wanted more transparency and lois lerner from 2005 on was -- it has been head of these tax exempt organizations. and grassley was head of the senate finance committee either as chairman or as the top republican. and for five years under her tenure and while he was the top republican, he really pushed for greater scrutiny of all these groups that she oversees. now, we are talking acorn which was, you know, a aa group a the love republicans targeted at thtime. the red cross and how they dealt with their donations, united way. it force the irs to rewrite the rules and draw on much greater scrutiny of these organizations. >> i have never in my life seen anything more over the top than her wanting to refer grassley for an audit for the simple reason that she gets a letter about grassley being invited some place. grassley didn't even get the
letter there was no conduct that was illegal. she just receives a letter inviting him to speak and she wants to go after him. >> my understanding this is about the culture of the division that lerner was overseeing. she brought this culture. the hair trigger response. >> that's vicious. because what she did was so profoundly wrong. >> well, on top of that my understanding is that people in grassley's office were often trying to get her to look into bigger problems like the tax shelters that really were suspicious. and other organizations deserved more scrutiny. they couldn't do any of this work. then she does this really hair trigger referral on one invitation for grassley for him to be audited. she responded to that very quickly. doesn't deal with any of these other things. it's about the culture there. about her lack of understanding about tax law, which we know -- which we
have heard about in these hearings. which my understanding she didn't have a great understanding of that will yous about political bias. a combination of those two things, that's a my crow come of the bigger problem with that organization and how they ended up targeting the tea party. >> pulled her off the ceiling and told her how patently absurd it was what she was trying to auto do. >> they understood the tax law. so wrong what she was doing. susan, thank you. now to more of the latest irs headlines. it's not just republicans the former clinton advisor, democrat now says it is time for a special prosecutor to investigate the irs scandal. lanny davis' white house council during the clinton administration he says a special prosecutor reporting to the attorney general should investigate. and two texas republicans are offering a million-dollar reward to be paid by taxpayers for anyone who can find lois lerner's lost emails. congressman louie government and florist investigation offer reward. $500 for information on the destruction of the emails. and talking about irony. lois lerner once received
award for ethics. it's true. back in 2008, lerner got the council on governmental ethics laws award. also a past president of that council. and the man who served as irs commissioner under president nixon has died. 94-year-old johnny walters died at his home in south carolina. back in 1971, president nixon was recorded telling the staff that he wanted the next irs commissioner to quote go after our enemies and not go after our friends. walters said he didn't know about those demands when he took the job. and then walters refused to participate in the administration's attempt to use the irs for political purposes. and finally, "new york times" public editor margaret sullivan writing about the paper's coverage of the irs scandal. she admits the times was late in covering the lost email stories but she says despite the slow start, the times has given its readers insightful coverage. we report. you decide. and coming up. i'm going to talk to you of off the record. i will tell what you i think is going on with
commissioner john koskinen. that's next. kid: do you pay him? dad: of course. kid: how much? dad: i don't know exactly. kid: what if you're not happy? does he have to pay you back? dad: nope. kid: why not? dad: it doesn't work that way. kid: why not? vo: are you asking enough questions about the way your wealth is managed? wealth management at charles schwab.
our cheese is going thin in a big way. with our ultra thin slices, you can now enjoy the same natural sargento cheese you love, at just 45 calories a slice. the same cheddar, swiss and provolone. just thinner and just 45 calories a slice. it's safe to say, thin has never been more in. sargent ultra thin slices. now available in baby swiss, chedder-jack and longhorn colby.
let's go off the record for a minute what's up with john koskinen. >> the improper criteria used to highlight organizations for investigation just by i their name was a mistake that is no mistake. how key he possibly call a mistake. the irs conduct was intentional and deliberate and done many times. mistake is inadvertent. incidental. kind of like backing up into a car in a grocery store parking lot. that's a mistake. not what the done with the irs is intentional and done over and over and over simply not a mistake. i don't know where the commissioner gets that mistake stuff or why he feels the need to soft pedal the conduct at the irs. but i have more problems with commissioner koskinen, he admits to targeting but did you hear what he called
it? the use of inappropriate criteria inappropriate criteria sort of like using the wrong fork at the dinner table so pc. why won't he call it what it is. tip for the commissioner. use of inappropriate criteria is targeting. and it stinks that he sugar coats it. it it doesn't sound like he takes it seriously when he does that, does it? we need someone who does take it seriously. the irs terrifies people. and the commissioner he needs to get that and that's my off-the-record comment tonight. thank you for joining us for this special edition of "on the record." we're going to see you again on monday night right here at 7:00 p.m. eastern. and just a reminder and this is important. pay attention to this. if you are just getting home pick up dvr remote and set a series recording each night. right now we need whistle blowers if you work at the irs or have worked at the irs or you know someone who does work at the irs and you
know a shady conduct going on there go to gretawire.com and you can post anonymously. don't forget to follow me at gretawire. >> o'reilly factor is on. tonight. >> watters travels to the sundance film festival are you disappointed in president obama at all. >> no. i'm disappointed in bill o'reilly. >> hollywood. >> bill o'reilly wants to know how you think the country is doing right now. >> that's a longer discussion than a red carpet. >> even the rock and roll hall of fame find out how celebrities view president obama. >> i never believe should get involved with politics. >> what do every day americans think about celebrities in this country? >> the only correlation that i can extrapolate would be superman or moses, except captain kirk is real. >> are we in tune with current events. >> the vice president of the united states of america?